'Palin Has Competition'

[Panthera Pardus Nigresco]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1177990/U-S-woman-poses-magnificent-elephant-downed-bow-arrow-left-die-overnight.html?ITO=1490

[Snuffy]

Sure hope that wasn't on the endangered species list ... especially with all that ivory its sportin ...

[Panthera Pardus Nigresco]

I've seen discussions in other forums stating that it wasn't worth the elephant's life...

[MaskRider]

What a disgusting, loathsome, horrid bitch. Hope she burns in hell.

[MaskRider]

I've seen discussions in other forums stating that it wasn't worth the elephant's life...

"it wasn't worth the elephant's life..." should be intuitively obvious to any decent human being. What a repulsive excuse for a person.

[Panthera Pardus Nigresco]

Sidebar discussion on hunting then ? (what qualifies, etc..)

[Toastmaker]

Sidebar discussion on hunting then ? (what qualifies, etc..)


P, I know you're trying to be diplomatic but sidebars take place in a court of law. Here at the Saloon, ie; the court of public opinion, we have shouting matches. . .

:laugh:

[Panthera Pardus Nigresco]

:ugly25::ugly25::D

[MaskRider]

BTW I want to make clear that I was talking about the woman hunter in that last post when I said "What a repulsive excuse for a person". She totally need to get a damned life. What a waste of space.

[CybrSlydr]

BTW I want to make clear that I was talking about the woman hunter in that last post when I said "What a repulsive excuse for a person". She totally need to get a damned life. What a waste of space.

lmao

This from the man who posts on an internet forum for whatever reason. :thumbs up:

[Hans Jaeger]

My first reaction, even as a hunter myself, was a negative one. Then, knowing what I do, I wondered about details.

Beofre I get into them, let me say that I do not agree with taking an animal and not despatching it quickly.

That being said, she shot the animal from a range of 12 yards. If her shot was well-placed, the animal probably expired quickly. It is unlikely that the elephant "crashed to the ground" and then suffered all night. (The article is written for maximum negative impact... you can tell by how it is written.)

If the animal was shot near dark, it would be highly unusual to approach it in failing light and amongst a herd.

There is mention that "Tour operators and hunters argue that elephants get out of control when not properly culled and can destroy crops and small buildings in rural villages."

This is quite true. I've watched programs of legal culls and hunting down elephants that raid villages at night, breaking into corn stores and so on. It happens frequently enough. Elephants and farmers do not make good neighbours.

There is no mention of the economic benefit derived by the locals from the hunt - paid guides, accomodations, etc.

There is also no mention that in some parts of Africa, elephants are overpopulated and eat themselves out of house and home. Better to let them starve or raid villages, I suppose, than to legally hunt them.

There is also no mention of what was done with the meat, which was very likely cut up and distributed to locals who would welcome the additional protein. This again is something that I have seen in films, not hunting films but conservation films. It could have been a cause for quite a celebration in the nearest village.

If this hunt generated thousands of dollars in revenue (which it almost certainly did) and meat for the locals (which it almost certainly did), was legal, and took an animal out of a herd that could be or needed to be culled, I think that changes the picture considerably.

The comments appended to the article, in the vein of "May she die and go to hell" were predictable, based on how the article was written, and with no extenuating background.

"Cor blimey, I luvs elephants. I got a statue of one on me coffee table!"

[Hans Jaeger]

As for the title of the thread, "Palin has competition", I hope that was said with an eye for humour. :)

Moose hunting, particularly without guides and in an area where it is a tradition, is nothing to sneeze at. It can be primal, exciting, and often a lot of work in harsh conditions. I see nothing wrong with moose hunting being on the woman's resumé, to her credit.

[MaskRider]

As for the title of the thread, "Palin has competition", I hope that was said with an eye for humour. :)

Moose hunting, particularly without guides and in an area where it is a tradition, is nothing to sneeze at. It can be primal, exciting, and often a lot of work in harsh conditions. I see nothing wrong with moose hunting being on the woman's resumé, to her credit.

I agree. I am no anti-hunting freak by any stretch. It just seems to me that killing this Elephant was so wasteful, unnecessary and cruel. Just something to momentarily relieve this woman's cronic boredom.

[Hans Jaeger]

I agree. I am no anti-hunting freak by any stretch.

Glad to hear it.


It just seems to me that killing this Elephant was so wasteful, unnecessary and cruel. Just something to momentarily relieve this woman's cronic boredom.

I tried to give some reasons why it might not be quite so dire.

I'm not a trophy hunter. I hunt because, besides enjoying the experience, I like to eat wild game - grouse, venison and moose mostly. I'm not in tune with the mentailty of shooting something just so you can say you shot it, but I'm not totally opposed to it either, if there are other side benefits.

I plan to go to northern Quebec some time to hunt caribou because it would be a totally different experience, but I also want to get my own meat because I have tasted caribou and I like it.

Perhaps the elephant girl got a lot more out of the trip than the 10 seconds it took to draw and shoot that arrow. I would hope so because a trip to Africa would be a lifetime experience in so many ways, a trip I would gladly take with only a camera.

Now Nausicaa is going to call me "intellectually dishonest" again because I can see both sides of something. :laugh:

[Willy]

He'll have to call both of us intellectually dishonest then as I see it pretty much the same way.

About all I hunt anymore are deer as we eat a lot of venison here and it goes a long way towards keeping meat on the table on a limited income.

[Hans Jaeger]

Here's one of my favourites, Willy, if you have a pressure cooker...

Venison Pressure-Cooker Steak HJT

· 1.5 to 2 lb venison, de-boned, trimmed of all fat, cut into large chunks
· (can substitute beef – i.e. flank, round or sirloin steak)
· ¼ c flour mixed with 1/8 tsp pepper for dredging
· cooking oil
· 2 med to large onion – diced
· 1 green pepper - diced
· 1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
· a few drops of hot (tabasco)sauce
· 1 envelope onion soup mix
· 1 ½ c hot water
· ½ bottle of beer

Cut up venison steak or chops into large, well-trimmed chunks. Dredge in flour then brown briefly on all sides in hot frying pan greased with cooking oil. Place into pressure cooker.

Fry onions and green pepper in a small amount of oil until lightly browned. Add sauces while frying. Add to pressure cooker.

Mix 1 envelope onion soup mix with 1 ½ c hot water. Add to cooker along with ½ bottle of beer.

Fasten lid. Time for 45 minutes from the time steam starts to escape from the release valve.

OPTIONAL

· Dice two med. potatoes finely and add (they will thicken the gravy)

Serve over hot pasta noodles.


---

Sounds like a waste of beer but it really adds to the flavour!

[Willy]

Sounds good. I've copied it and gave it to Mrs Willy :thumbs up:

[bzhyoyo]

I haven't read the article, but isn't Elephant trophy hunting, just for the sake of saying "I did it" in her case? Then I can't stand that attitude in anybody, be it a rapper boasting about his biatches and his money or a female bow-hunter.
I have nothing against hunting if you eat what you hunt afterwards.

[MaskRider]

Yep. Killing that elephant was a wanton act of cruelty which served no purpose other than, as I said, to relieve, momentarily unfortunately, that sick bitch's profound boredom- with herself. She came to Africa and left a beautiful animal rotting dead on the ground behind her. If I were Africa- I'd be profoundly relieved to see her go. Some accomplishment. I can't see how any reasonable person could defend her.

[Hans Jaeger]

Yep. Killing that elephant was a wanton act of cruelty which served no purpose other than, as I said, to relieve, momentarily unfortunately, that sick bitch's profound boredom- with herself.

To some people that would be adventure. Not the same as climbing mountains, but to her probably a trip of a lifetime and an achievement. Maybe we don't quite understand it but that doesn't necessarily make her a "sick bitch".


She came to Africa and left a beautiful animal rotting dead on the ground behind her.

Like I said, the animal was very likely used for meat for the locals.


I can't see how any reasonable person could defend her.

Well if you want to draw that kind of a line in the sand, I guess I'm on the other side of it from you, whether you think I'm reasonable or not.

--

I'm reminded of a comic strip I saw once...

1st frame - "Hey Phyllis, there's a deer in the garden!"

2nd frame - "Oh how sweet!"

3rd frame - "I think it's eating your rhododendrons."

4th frame - "Get the gun!"

[MaskRider]

BS. No offense.


Like I said, the animal was very likely used for meat for the locals.


I doubt it. The tusks were probably cut off and away they went. You make it sound like she was on a humanitarian mission to feed Africa' starving.

No the world would be better off with the elephant still in it and elephant girl aborted.

And yes, the "I don't see how any reasonable person could..." is a cheap rhetorical riff.

[Hans Jaeger]

BS. No offense.

None taken.

But I also think you don't know enough about the subject or the circumstances --- certainly not treated objectively in the article, and I guess you don't know and don't want to allow any background.

So be it.

[MaskRider]

OK Hans. Fill me in. Even hypothetically, what is a background context that I don't want to know that would make me think that this- wounding an elephant with an arrow and leaving it to suffer and die- was a worthwhile accomplishment. In my wildest imaginings I can't think of any. Please expand my consciousness for me.

PS: I take that back. If the elephant were running amok, stomping villagers under foot and threatening life and limb then I could see justification for killing it. But not for leaving it to suffer. Somehow though I don't think that was the case. This was very much a controlled kill it sounds like to me. The elephant was just standing there attempting to mind it own business. Our mighty elephant girl was probably led to the spot, told where to stand and the rest is history.

[MaskRider]

BTW, the elephant was indeed standing around with it's family group peaceably minding its own business- and trusting her to do the same. She did it to win a bet. Elephants, btw are very intelligent animals that mourn their dead.

As one commentator remarked: "Stalk her, skin her, salt her …"

[MaskRider]

Found this although I don't know its source- I copied it from a post over at MailOnline (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/newsdebate/r/t-9984265/index.html?threadIndex=9)


Actually, she was paid to cull the elephant. This was a government-sanctioned hunt, specifically for game management, and was sponsored by the bow manufacturer. Tens of thousands of pounds were paid to the government for the hunting permit, and game wardens supervised the hunt. The funds from the hunt will be used by government law enforcement to control poachers, who kills hundreds of elephants per year - often just for their tusks.
The death of this animal will potentially save hundreds of others from poaching or starvation and fed over 500 families in a nation with an out-of-control economy verging on collapse and civil war.

This may be what the gov is saying. It ain't why she was there.

[Hans Jaeger]

Actually, she was paid to cull the elephant. This was a government-sanctioned hunt, specifically for game management, and was sponsored by the bow manufacturer. Tens of thousands of pounds were paid to the government for the hunting permit, and game wardens supervised the hunt. The funds from the hunt will be used by government law enforcement to control poachers, who kills hundreds of elephants per year - often just for their tusks.
The death of this animal will potentially save hundreds of others from poaching or starvation and fed over 500 families in a nation with an out-of-control economy verging on collapse and civil war.

Thanks for posting that. It confirms pretty much everything I said about the likely circumstances.

As for the suffering, if the animal "crashed to the ground" after 500 yards, that's on a par with a good bow shot on much smaller game, i.e. moose or deer. I have seen moose shot fatally with an arrow where they didn't even know they were hit, and just walk away, expiring shortly after. Death is as quick as it can be with a bow shot (i.e. generally not as fast as with a bullet), and like I said, it's very unlikely that the elephant was alive for very long after the shot.

As for the woman's motives, we're just guessing. But I serioulsy doubt she deserves to be condemned to hell, and such nonsense.